12 Answers

  1. Despite the fact that Andrey Privorotsky is formally right, there is still room for discussion on the merits.

    The fact is that the Strugatskys themselves say (in the story) about the Ludens as follows::

    “We are not human beings. We are the Ludens. Don't make a mistake. We are not the result of a biological revolution. We appeared because humanity has reached a certain level of sociotechnical organization. The third impulse system could have been discovered in the human body a hundred years ago, but it was only possible to initiate it at the beginning of this century, and to keep Luden on the spiral of psychophysiological development, to lead him from level to level until the very end… that is, in your terms, it became possible to raise Luden quite recently.”

    Here the word “educate” is absolutely not accidental and the reservation of the author of the question about theory gets meaning.

    The fact is that the Strugatskys did not just invent the Ludens, but they had an idea, the idea of their life, their creativity. They constantly talked about this and wrote about it in interviews.

    High theory of education wikipedia.org

    You should read it yourself and follow the links in the online interview. But the main thing is that the Strugatskys hold the view that proper education can give a new person (the fact that without education there is no old person is more or less agreed by everyone, but here we are talking about a new level). And the practical aspect that Strugatsky deduces is that it is not parents who should educate, but specialists; parents harm education because of their special relationship to the child.

    This is the principle that runs through all Strugatsky's works.

    This is exactly what Lukyanenko is acrimoniously polemicizing with when he created geometers. Lukyanenko's geometers, this is how he saw the Strugatskys ' ideal society. wikipedia.org

    “It's hard to be a god”:

    “Two hundred thousand people! They had something in common with an alien from Earth. Probably, the fact that all of them, almost without exception, were not yet people in the modern sense of the word, but blanks, blanks, from which only the bloody centuries of history will ever carve a real proud and free person.”

    Blanks! Not even Stalin's cogs, but blanks. Here, by the way, the aesthetic of Herman's film grows, because of which a lot of people say-there is a feeling of “shit, shit, everything around is shit”. Yes, this is a certain attitude towards people.

    According to the Strugatskys ' logic, it is quite possible (as they write) that the Ludens are already among us. After all, they do not differ biologically, and they could have been brought up without Mentors from a random natural mentor.

    So, yes, there is Nietzsche, and utopian socialists with their ideas of organization, education and ordering of a new society, and many other interesting things. Strugatsky – classics.

  2. Well, the plot of the themes is something like this. Some physiological changes are made in the human body (a new, initially inhibited brain rhythm is activated). After that, a person gets the ability to break physical laws (to overcome space, to exist in an airless space without life support systems, to transform their body at will…). I hope you understand that this is nonsense. Human physiology cannot affect the physics of the universe.

    Of course, unless we live in the matrix, and “ludens” did not manage to find some jamb in the program:~).

  3. As described by the Strugatskys, there can be no Ludens. This statement is based on the most well-known physical laws, starting with the law of conservation of energy and ending… yes, every single law of physics does not allow people to do miracles.

    The only idea that is not absolutely delusional (in general, it is also a devious one) is that we live in a virtual world like the Matrix and some of us, like Neo, will be able to control the code of the world with an effort of thought.

    This is extremely unlikely.

    As the Strugatskys themselves joked, it is not known who opened the water, but it was definitely not fish.

    What is possible and likely is the gradual transformation of a person into a cyborg, and then into a robot. It's a pity.

  4. Let's look at this question from a slightly different angle: Humanity has already accumulated a huge amount of knowledge and tools for working with it, and by coordinating its efforts and combining the accumulated knowledge, it can solve practically any problem in a fairly short time. The problem is that knowledge is fragmented and difficult to overcome the barrier that separates them, people very poorly cooperate and agree among themselves. The level of trust in each other is very low.

    The Strugatskys ' ludens are a product of social technologies. Now most social technologies exist in the shadows. It is customary to be interested in them only during elections or for marketing purposes. The level of achievement in this area varies greatly among different groups, and it is quite possible that there has long been a group in the bowels of humanity that has a slightly higher level of mutual understanding, trust and coherence of interaction, which give a significant gain in the speed of solving problems and creating new opportunities. Do you think that they will reveal their secrets to those for whom the dispute is more important than the solution found?

  5. If you remove the mysticism with the ridiculous ideas of magical “control of the laws of the universe and matter” purely by the power of thought, without taking into account the law of conservation of energy, then the Ludens have long been among us.

    There are always people who think differently, do not recognize dogmas and ideological slogans, and even more so do not recognize AUTHORITIES.

    These are people who have developed independent critical analytical thinking since childhood. When dealing with any business issues, ordinary people are next to them like newborn slobbering babies, unable to understand the meaning of what is happening.

    And with the development of Intellectual labor, this stratification will become stronger and stronger.

    Let's simplify it on the shelves-

    1. In a modern developed civilization, very stupid and even disabled members of society can live, and there are more and more of them. But a smaller number of the most qualified and very intelligent can further promote such a civilization.

    2. The difference in the number of the dumbest and the smartest is growing all the time, and the difference in mental development is also growing.

    3. It has long been difficult to communicate with stupid people, even just for smart people, not to mention the smartest ones. Not interesting, doesn't make any sense at all.

    4. Education and “world-class elite mental performance training” are increasingly lengthy and require tremendous discipline, which further increases the stratification.

    5. It remains only to reach the level when cohabitation and interbreeding are impossible, because “stupidity does not excite well, in any way”, and two types of homo sapiens will appear )) Smart people will refer to dumb people as sheep and cats, in fact the expression Shepherd and Flock has been sooo long known.

  6. I don't believe that ludens will appear. “The main thing is on the Ground “(ABS),

    “…The snow of the peak glowed with gold and white, it stood over the valley, flooded with purple twilight, powerful and eternal, and I, without closing my eyes, full of tears that refract its light, slowly got up and began to descend the scree to the south, to where my home was. ” S. Lem. Ludens are for space. Not for earth. Can people become them? But these are no longer people. Question – can a person become NOT a person? The law is not written for a fool, and many of us are no longer human. Unfortunately, in a negative sense. Do we, just people, need it? Obviously not. And if such a process is unmanageable, God be with them, do not kill them. But an unnecessary phenomenon is nonsense, it is unlikely that nature will do such a thing.

  7. Most of all ,I believe that humanity, at the current level of development, can fully ensure a comfortable and happy existence without the help of alien civilizations and otherworldly forces.

  8. Alas, I feel sorry for the author of the question, but they will no longer appear. Yes, they were there once, but as one hero (Prince Miloslavsky) said, they disappeared. It's a pity of course, someone liked them, someone was crazy about them, but apavark, even though they are a minority

    (ah, it rules this world) that's enough left. As they say, there is no trial, but the author of the question can not worry, the main thing is to remember them and sleep peacefully in a state-owned bed in a well-equipped ward number six. All the best, get treated!

  9. Alas, I don't see any alternatives!?They didn't see the ABS either…however.. I can imagine that People will be divided by implicit criteria. The greatest part of the Alternative Future of Humanity will be exclusively / Buddhist – style / peaceful-starting, if not from the embryo, then from the nursery. Peaceful-for the sake of Comfort & Safety, Longevity & Health+&+&+&…- Self-governing community without bureaucracy and siloviki in our thinking, min / min taxes & max / max personal / personal labor, entrepreneurship…The price of payment for nishtyaki is unconditional, conscious / voluntary Execution of the Law, Judge's decisions and tax collections…Any and every attempt to evade Compliance with the Law, etc. …This is where the ABS-Ludens will perform in Real Life/in the service of the future of Alternative Humanity/-Protectors of the Mirny community from the SPPAS Building/Corps of professional Human Rights Defenders from the Service of Prevention and Prevention of Emergency Events… I believe in People. I believe that without Ludens-without alternative humanity will not survive… With all the awareness that Humans are monstrously / inhumanly incomprehensible… Without alternatives to survival…how I think.


  10. If such items appear in the near future, we have excellent prospects for the appearance of new items for deification. Society is not ready either for a Big Revelation, or for the consciousness that any of the close people will at some point turn out to be a complete stranger.

    At some point in my life (I was already quoting the Strugatskys by heart at that time), two books by Glenn Doman came into my hands. One is about the history of the creation of the center for helping patients with brain disorders, the second is a description of its activities and the preparation of an assessment table for children's development. For me, this was practically a Big Revelation, the split in society became palpable. If I didn't have HBV in my head, I probably would have had less anxiety). I read Doman and imagined how damage to the part of the brain that is responsible for producing unexplored teeth of mentograms and other deviations from statistics can occur). And I imagined how many people in the world with a high-quality working brain, who are really not interested in the environment even without transforming into a human, and they can also not stop there, but develop further…

    By the way, there is a Bromberg theory in HBV, which in principle gives a good scenario for people who have lost the meaning of life, and if you add here the possibility of reincarnation while preserving the basic knowledge of the previous life, then all people will come to become super – beings relative to us today and this will be the norm. I like this fan of events, it gives the logic of modern life.

  11. The work of the Strugatskys I respect is filled with the search for “favorites” and “others”. Apparently, the God-chosen people from which the writers came left a clear and unambiguous imprint on their works. In HBV, the chosen ones, kissed by nature on the top of the head, broke away from the masses… and they became unhappy. At least the AIB was not falsified here. And so… whether there is life on Mars or not is not known to science. 😉

  12. I believe. The Strugatskys are many decades ahead of our thinking. An example, at least indigo children…
    It's not about the body as such, but how you are spiritually developed. But today, as yesterday, many people live by the principle: in a healthy body – a healthy mind. So you give priority to the body! Hence consumerism and relationships instead of love ….sorry

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